Should we stay or should we go?

[LimeGreenLegend 4,185]

10 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I've seen a lot of that, especially comments saying why are the elderly voting on an issue that they won't be alive to see the outcome of. It's very small minded and undemocratic. 

Kids raised on facebook and twitter being a bunch of drama queens "wah our future is ruined I'm leaving the country". We were in worse shape in 2008, and 2003, and 1992, and most of the 80s.

[Squirrel 5,180]

35 minutes ago, DavidCore89 said:

People throwing the names around are just mad that they didn't get their way, I can understand that, but I'm far from uneducated and I don't read newspapers, so do yourself a favour and stop generalizing and placing leave voters in some stereotypical group because you're getting it all wrong.

I know an accountant and a magistrate who both voted out, go tell them that they're uneducated.

People are insane if they think voting remain makes them any better or different, if that was the basis of their vote then they have my pity.

It's not just leave voters in those groups. some remain voters also believe everything that is put in front of them, they will just be reading different newspapers.

Its a generalisation of the population as a whole. We're a multi-class society, we always have been and always will be. There isn't the same gulf between the classes there once was but it still exists. The class system is also a pyramid, as you move further down, the more members a class has. It's just the way society is made up.

 

 

This vote has been swayed by the masses. Take Hull as an example. It's a city with strong ties to fishing and docks, huge migrant population as well as large areas of council estates. I have a lot of family over there. My Dad has his UK residence there and he is a former police sergeant, his wife used to be a top prosecutor for the CPS. My sister went to uni there, met her Husband at uni and they have stayed in Hull.

The verdict for Hull was in the high 60% region to leave and unsurprisingly so. Not because everyone in Hull is uneducated but because of the social make up of the city. I don't know exactly how my family voted as I've not asked although I can strongly assume they voted in as my Dad lives in France for much of the year.

If you look at the key areas within England and Wales that voted to remain; Central London, Leeds, York, Newcastle, Manchester, Liverpool, Reading, Oxford, Cambridge, Norwich, Cardiff and Exeter

These are the financial centres of their regions, they are also where the majority of the younger voters live too, as well as being prominent university towns. The areas around those wealthier centres are the more working class zones. Which in the North especially, all voted to leave. I don't have as much experience with the southern areas but I can read a chart very well.

*I'm being kicked out of the office now so will probably continue this later*

Edited June 24, 2016 by Squirrel

[DavidCore89 7,402]

Well despite what the vote says and the clear divide in the areas of the UK, wall charts and other stuff, I won't allow anyone to think they're any better than I am.

I expect everyone on these forums are working class or lower anyway, so where's the gulf in class? There isn't one, but some remain voters have convinced themselves overnight that they're middle class or a class above the average guy.

Education, geographical location and what your family have done do not directly equate to class - I have enough money to not need to work, I can pay for any education that I want and I can live anywhere I want, but I choose to live in a working class area with poor people because I love it. Moving to Manchester or Central London doesn't increase my class in the slightest, I'd still be a bald-headed, unemployed, uneducated, reality TV-watching, working-class guy, the only difference being living in a better area 

 

[Squirrel 5,180]

Completely agree. No one individual is tied to act a certain way or having to conform with their peers. The class boundaries are all mixed up too. Nor does being in a certain class mean that you have to live in a specific type of area. 

In democracy majority rules although this doesn't mean they're always right nor are they always wrong.

As for my own background I'd definitely class myself as educated working class. Both my parents grew up on council estates and worked to get out of them and not fall into the baby factory mentality which many people from the same background did including a lot of my cousins. I have no idea how many I actually have, none of them seem to work they just breed but that's a whole other conversation! 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Squirrel

[Squirrel 5,180]

This was all getting a little serious so gonna change the tone slightly and post some of the best images of the day!

And finally the one I made which is steadily attracting likes...

[Squirrel 5,180]

I need to share this really in depth political exchange I had with a Leave voter. 

My friend posted this earlier today

just now some intellectual responded with a brilliant counter argument that I just had to reply back to. 

[grjkie 727]

Wow

[DavidCore89 7,402]

Can't help but notice the incorrect spelling of 'shocking'... Socking news, sounds like news that comes with a quick punch to the face from Mike Tyson.

Anyway, Keiran sounds lovely.

Posting anything on Social Media about the EU shit will always get 'mixed' responses, kinda walking right into it.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DavidCore89

[Squirrel 5,180]

I know! I'm not trying to say that this is the average leave supporter but its certainly an example of the kind of people contributing to how the country is run. Well done democracy!

[DavidCore89 7,402]

Probably plenty of those assholes on both sides though.

[Squirrel 5,180]

Just now, DavidCore89 said:

Probably plenty of those assholes on both sides though.

Definitely people like this on both sides. Loss for democracy when people who are making a well informed decision have an equal say with people like the above whose shoe size is larger than their IQ.

[LimeGreenLegend 4,185]

That's how this works though, either everyone gets a vote or no one does.

[shortround 1,160]

I is sad. TL:DR this thread but i is sad. I liked being European. Now I is British? I hate Britain and all it stands for. Be glad when i is dead. 

[DavidCore89 7,402]

Lol you're still European.

We left the Union, not Europe 

[shortround 1,160]

I thought this means we are standalone. I know nothing about politics. 

Edited June 24, 2016 by shortround

[Braldy 335]

8 minutes ago, DavidCore89 said:

Lol you're still European.

We left the Union, not Europe 

Now im even more confused.  Im just the x5ish great grandchild of a convict that was once sent from those shores trying to work out what the hell has happened.

[DavidCore89 7,402]

It's quite a common misconception around the world, but also in the UK and on these forums.

The campaign to leave the EU doesn't mean leave Europe, it means leave the European Union.

The European Union is political / economic union built up of 27 European countries (was 28), think it was founded by Belgium. There are many other countries within Europe that aren't a part of the European Union.

Europe is a continent, I'm pretty sure we can't just leave and start moving the UK around the globe and placing it where we choose .

UK left the EU = UK left the European Union, not Europe the continent.

[LimeGreenLegend 4,185]

If we are leaving the continent I suggest we sail our island to the Caribbean

[Lann 10,838]

Interesting question and potential tense thread that were handled very well.

The election is over and it seems most argument and discussions have been brought up. 

Since the election is over and the answer to the question is "leave" I think we shall end this on top.

 

[Arruda 718]

This isn't officially over yet, is it? Parliament can still vote against it. I'm guessing if they had their way they'd vote it down (read somewhere that 2/3 of MPs were remainers), but it's probably walking on thin ice for most of them (as most circles voted leave). Still be interesting to see what kind of pressure they come under until the vote. 

[Squirrel 5,180]

Before any exit plan can be put in place the PM has to invoke the article 50 aspect of the Lisbon treaty. Our PM has already said he's not going to sign it so it will be down to the next PM whoever that will be after he has stepped down in October. We may not get a new PM straight away, the opposition may demand a new election process instead of it passing to the next most senior leave supporter. Plus there's the small matter of the potential second referendum to be debated in Parliament first.

This is going to drag on for a very long time. Make the most of the EU benefits while we can.

[Squirrel 5,180]

Related to my last post. This comment has been doing the rounds basically outling what the governments next steps are. @silenttigercd and @DavidCore89 you've both made well thought out comments on Brexit so would like your take on this too. Is this just pro-remain bollocks or is there any truth to this. 

Full link here:

https://www.facebook.com/tom.short.351/posts/10155134392909152

 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Squirrel

[silenttigercd 863]

I love the way Tom Short cites 'The Guradian's comment section' as though it's some sort of leading authority. I'm not going to waste my time researching the original author but I suspect they spend most of their time wearing a tin foil hat and regurgitating theories of a flat earth.

As you've asked though, I'll give my opinion on it:

Yes, it's strange that Cameron promised to initiate Article 50 proceedings immediately but has deferred. But as we all know, politicians are renowned for their lies. Cameron genuinely wanted to remain in the EU and felt confident enough of a Remain vote to hold the referendum. He's understandably devastated to have failed and I wonder if he's thought "fuck this shit, I really can't be arsed" and resigned. Everyone knows leaving the Union will be a mammoth undertaking and it will take many years. As he's campaigned so hard for the opposite result I reckon he's worn out and simply doesn't have any enthusiasm to deal with the actual leaving. Can't blame him really.

I read this article earlier. Although it isn't directly relevant to Tom's Facebook status, it does provide the opinion of 'Britain's top elections expert' who says 'If Boris Johnson is running the Government and it (disengagement from the EU) is taking a long time to be implemented...' This strongly implies Article 50 will indeed be exercised by the next Prime Minister. The expert doesn't express any doubt about this. I value the opinion of this guy far more than some random person on the Guardian website. If this was actually an issue I'm sure it would be bigger than a Facebook status doing the rounds. 

Failure by our next Prime Minister to initiate Article 50 would be political suicide for whoever it is, and the Conservative Party as a whole. No, the referendum isn't legally binding but it would be foolish for Parliament to ignore the people's will. This wouldn't only upset the 52% that voted to leave, but also the Remainers who appreciate the legitimacy of the democratic process. 

I'm with Clarkson on this:

24 hours are up now and I'm personally getting pretty sick of all the moaning (I've tolerated it all weekend at work). Remain need to get over it - they've lost. It was a very close vote, but we knew the majority vote would win, and very few people petitioned to change this. Everyone's time and energy is best spent focusing on the future - amicably leaving the EU and building an independent UK. Both camps need to unite for our exciting future and eradicate the irrational fear of impending doom and unnecessary fear-mongering. Of course there'll be dark days but they'll be easier if we all get along. Claiming to be experts in EU constitutional law and suggesting we're eternally fettered to the EU, demanding further referendums, denying old people their right to vote whilst lowering the voting age are futile and, frankly, a waste of time. People need to accept we don't always get what we want - it's the first vote I've actually "won" (although I hate that mentality) and I feel if we were remaining, I would be slightly disappointed but would appreciate the democratic legitimacy of the referendum, bite my lip, and get over it, as I have done with General Elections. 

That said, I'm sick and tired of the whole thing so I'm going to try to avoid all things Brexit for a few days! It feels great to get this rant written down though. I hope I haven't pissed anyone off (too much) throughout the thread

[DavidCore89 7,402]

Who is Tom Short?

A guy who worked in a comedy club and a sales assistant at McColls newsagents.

He's just another remain voter who is mad.

Just because he uses a lot of words, it doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

I'll wait until the next PM lets us know that plan, fuck Tom Short.

 

[Banketelli 3,655]

Can't wait for this circus to come to Denmark.