DavidCore89 7,402 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 That's fair man, I said a few days ago that I am burned out on playing the same stuff which is why I turned to the creator, I get a lot of enjoyment from playing a job which is new to me (which is why I add new verified stuff to my PL's), the whole lobby has a lot more fun but I think the approved content submissions may be avoided by this so-called 'group'. Well to me it seems biased so I will avoid that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumdig 957 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Is there a way for me, or others, to criticize these jobs without having to PM each creator? Like said earlier, I really enjoyed a few that were played last night but they need various amounts of attention. Now that I've ran the track I want to run it more but only once the issues are resolved. I have no issues running someone else's job...if its a good one. Make no mistake, I'm not running the job FOR them, I'm simply hosting because its a fun creation. Any ideas on how to structure this? Shall I go lone wolf here and just chat up the creators? If I could fix the issues myself I would... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge 7,248 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Any critiquing, I think, should be done on the Creator Post made for the Job in the forum for Created Jobs. If you are running something that the creator never made a post for, then a PM is the only way. That's fair man, I said a few days ago that I am burned out on playing the same stuff which is why I turned to the creator, I get a lot of enjoyment from playing a job which is new to me (which is why I add new verified stuff to my PL's), the whole lobby has a lot more fun but I think the approved content submissions may be avoided by this so-called 'group'. Well to me it seems biased so I will avoid that. The goal is to create a completely broad spectrum critique of said jobs. Jobs from both our crew "Creators", and otherwise. Obviously some bias comes into play. So to try to curb that, there will be at least 4-5 people critiquing these creations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmurko 7,622 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Is there a way for me, or others, to criticize these jobs without having to PM each creator? Like said earlier, I really enjoyed a few that were played last night but they need various amounts of attention. Now that I've ran the track I want to run it more but only once the issues are resolved. I have no issues running someone else's job...if its a good one. Make no mistake, I'm not running the job FOR them, I'm simply hosting because its a fun creation. Any ideas on how to structure this? Shall I go lone wolf here and just chat up the creators? If I could fix the issues myself I would... If you have a mic and are prepared to help some creators out, its really great if you run the track slowly with creator and give him comments along the way. Desuno has done this one time with me and I've learned a lot just from a few comments he's made, especially since he explained what line he takes and where he expects CPs to be placed, why soe bothered him etc ... Make sure you take it slow and let the creator enough time to write down your notes. Its even better if you both have mics, I was only able to use my horn to "communicate" lol Otherwise, open up the race on RSC and use CPs numbers from there and post your comments in the forum topic I guess. 1 Quote S U N D A Y R A C I N G L E A G U E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustHatched 12,103 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 For example Domestic Bar Fight while still a good time it is getting stale (sorry Hatched). No need to be sorry, I was bored with it quite the while back Dunno if I said it before, or at least not in this fashion. I have talked to Dodge and SS and what I have said is I am all for trying out the other stuff, and if they and the vetting staff want to do it then by all means go ahead. With the approval thing, it is an idea to try, if it works that is great, if not we can say it was tried (never know if you don't try). TO the creators - like most have said, if you want you stuff played then you have to make the job known (you can't expect anyone to dig thru 100's of RSC pages to find it). Easiest way is to post it, but you have to expect some critique (one member a while back left the crew because he expected everyone to say good job and he got a minor critique from HC). TO the Events Staff - In no way are you obligated to put any job that you do not want to in your PL's, I do encourage changing it up week to week and I think most do so there shouldn't be an issue. 1 Quote The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumdig 957 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 If you have a mic and are prepared to help some creators out, its really great if you run the track slowly with creator and give him comments along the way. Desuno has done this one time with me and I've learned a lot just from a few comments he's made, especially since he explained what line he takes and where he expects CPs to be placed, why soe bothered him etc ... Make sure you take it slow and let the creator enough time to write down your notes. Its even better if you both have mics, I was only able to use my horn to "communicate" lol Otherwise, open up the race on RSC and use CPs numbers from there and post your comments in the forum topic I guess. I wrote everything down already from CP and barrier placement to awkward turns, etc. I'll see how that works (race together or PM) but I haven't seen a few of the creators online in awhile. We'll see...might just be spinning my wheels here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Charlie while I use myself as an example alot I don't care if my stuff gets played or attention at all. Most of them are epic failures and I know that and ok with that. Also notice I am not looking to host any of my jobs. I want just rep and muscle jobs. Now this was not meant to be a debate or argument I am just looking for new stuff to play and maybe (just maybe) get someone who is lesser known creator for whatever reason some help. I know when I joined this crew I wouldn't have talked to anyone more or less ask people to play my stuff. I still don't ask and will not because I don't have stuff I am proud enough to put out there for a playlist that I am not running. We aren't arguing, we are discussing. Had we been actually arguing, being that we both are American, there would be name-calling involved and at some point one of us would have questioned the other's sexuality in vulgar terms....you dumbass As for Bullitt, I'll just come out and say it, and I know I am not alone in thinking it.....he was a whiner...and very thin-skinned. His "point" was childish nonsense. I am under no obligation to play anyone else's stuff, and they are not obligated to play mine. That applies to all ADULTS....you , me, anybody who wants to be treated as an adult. If I show up for every NASCAR event, I do not do so with the attitude that Hatched now has some sort of unwritten obligation to play my events or join my rooms.....that is PURE childishness. I'm not going to even go into why this is absurd. This is what we do with small children. When people start tossing the word "FAIR" around, any claim to adulthood and maturity is null and void. Life isn't fair...that's supposed to be the first lesson in "Adulthood 101". So what? We are all adults, we joined this crew of on own volition, we have our own tastes and preferences. ADULTS respect other adults' tastes and preferences and don't try to underhandedly coerce people to participate in things they don't normally participate in by attempting to impune them with the ruse of it being "FAIR". No such obligation exists, and if Bullit felt a lack of respect for his position on the matter, it was because it was not respectable. it only respected HIS wishes and no one elses. I am getting really uncomfortable with this trend of people wanting to control what everyone else in the crew is doing during their gametime. Let people do what they enjoy and if we share interests, then there is literally zero need to have to "force it" to happen. It happens on its own, on its own merit. I argued strongly against the events submission process, but I lost out and have no problem with being in the crew and going thru the new process I tried to convince people not to put in place....but it seems there is no end to the amount people want to control, restrict, and oblige others. Personally, I dont see why you dont host your own stuff SS if you are still hosting events. I wish I could say for sure "ok thursdays I can host a grenadeball tourney at 8pm" but my RL just doesnt leave me in a position to do that without problems that would make me appear to be flakey. Instead I just log in and host my stuff as much as I can whenever I can on the fly.There is nothing stopping muscle or reps from submitting events to be hosted themselves. The forum is in place, anyone can host in game. Anyone can upload a video, anyone can promote their own stuff. They CHOOSE not to, or they do promote and it simply doesnt catch on, OR they promote but do not possess the patience necessary to allow it to catch on. Let's stop pretending to be stewards of reps/muscle, as if they are children in need of stewards, and let them do things for themselves. Sorry for the rant, but I hate to see a good thing get wrecked anywhere in life....even in the utterly insignificant world of video games. Edited June 24, 2014 by handcuff_charlie Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I'm with SS, it's not about being a 'like-whore' it's about having your content looked at, and critiqued by experienced creators so you can see where to change and improve things so it's good enough to put out into the general public. I can also see how it could annoy those who've spent a lot of time promoting their own stuff, not everyone has the time and/or confidence to do that. Surely we, as a crew, should help and support one another? I also understand the frustration of seeing creators getting 'added' and 'great looking track' etc on their creations. Also, if you do play a creation, why not take a moment to add a comment to the creators topic (good or bad)? It has been my experience that much less than 10% of people can handle being told their baby is ugly. I will make a prediction.....our "XDBX approved" thread will be a borderline cheerleading forum for all creations submitted, with only the most abysmal trainwrecks receiving the most sugarcoated, kid-gloves, critiques which will be chock-full of ambivalent phrases/words like "maybe", "sort of", "my cup of tea", "a little bit"....as the reviewers try to delicately tiptoe around being forced to review a submission but don't want to risk upsetting/offending the creator. basically everything that gets submitted, will get approved, and the whole exercise will be pointless....much like it is on the GTAF approved races thread, EXCEPT for the fact that it appears that R* browses that particular thread from time to time to select candidates for verification, which is the ONLY reason to bother with it. Ultimately our new thread is a duplicate of the very forum it resides in. if people aren't posting their creations to the forum to begin with or other people aren't playing those creations enough, this "approved" thread isn't going to change that. It is the same people, with the same gameplay habits. We are inviting even more frustration on the part of those of you who are going to put in time and effort on this. Stop turning the game more and more into work and just let it be a game with loose frameworks of coordination here on the website serve to ENHANCE it, not DRIVE it. Edited June 24, 2014 by handcuff_charlie Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssracingn2 935 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) We aren't arguing, we are discussing. Had we been actually arguing, being that we both are American, there would be name-calling involved and at some point one of us would have questioned the other's sexuality in vulgar terms....you dumbass Personally, I dont see why you dont host your own stuff SS if you are still hosting events. I wish I could say for sure "ok thursdays I can host a grenadeball tourney at 8pm" but my RL just doesnt leave me in a position to do that without problems that would make me appear to be flakey. There is nothing stopping muscle or reps from submitting events to be hosted themselves. . First off Charlie you character wears combat boots. Second point I dont host my own stuff because i do not feel comfortable to play with randoms and you only have such a shelf life within the crew. I understand the "failures" of my stuff and was trying to help other people with theirs. I know everyone I mentioned make great things just trying to get new blood as well. I am the asshole that started a shit storm because of it though. Sorry I went down this way though. Edited June 24, 2014 by ssracingn2 Quote http://www.gta-stats.com/player/image/medium_1.units_0.platI_1.plat_2/custom.stats_races_ratio.stats_dm_ratio.crime_kills_players_headshots.crime_kdr_players.other_vehicles_speed/ssracingn2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Or as me, G, Rev, Rum and Hannabis did last night - take it in turn to host your stuff publicly, you'll build up a group of players who can be invited back with the 'players from last job' button, auto invite and away you go. After each job all players quit to FR and the next host fires something up, this way the lobby stays full(ish), players get to host their jobs to a public audience and everyone gets the opportunity. Last night Rum had a new contact for future H2H and I found a few new friends to game with - it's a win / win situation. Note the key word here is PUBLICLY, not closed, not crew only, invite everyone. We could do this one night per week, but lately it's the same people gaming with each other every day and night, the others seem to be hiding The like button doesnt do this reply nearly enough justice. I almost NEVER run playlists. I believe I am approaching in on 10k total plays on my creations now (was 7k a month ago prior to R* selecting my TDM). I have hosted a playlist of my creations a grand total of three times....once I did a Futo Racing PL(3), a B2B (3 motorcycle point-to-point PL), and a Grenadeball PL (4). Playlists sequester you from the general population, or at least they used to, in any case the inability to manipulate the timer once the PL starts in effect will sequester you because the reality is that from the time you hit the auto-invite button it is going to be 20-30 seconds before most players can actually be in the room, the exception are those you are already in a session with and that # only goes down over time. PL's are fine for events with set participants, but for general gameplay they suck...when I see an invite come across my phone I am far less likely to accept it because i dont know what I am joining except for the first job. Why would I sign up for a PL of 11 when they first one might be something I enjoy playing like a race or a DM, and then the next 10 are LTS's for all I know. The only people who are going to join PL's are your friends who you game with regularly, that totally hamstrings your chances to get stuff played and improve upon it. In and out of FM is the best way to do this and it is how I spend 90% of my GTA online time. I host, exit, rehost, rinse repeat until I get bored or see something else pop up that I want to do, or we have an event that i want to catch....and believe me I only catch maybe 1 of every 5 or 6 I want to catch. I spent weeks/months struggling to fill even 4 player minimum TDMs and did a ton of racing instead (with 2 or 3 racers), but now I am surprised when a TDM doesnt fill at least 8 if not 12 or full....I realize R* may have made some fixes to the invite system, and I believe they have but this is how you get stuff played, it needs to show up on people's phones while they are in-game Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Only thing I have issue with is less confident/experienced creators hosting a job publicly might get thumbs down and no actual feedback as to why, that's why I'm saying build up a little group of players who will try each others stuff and get it right before it's unleashed on the wider community. It doesnt matter. if i could travel back in time and murder the asshole who thought up this thumbs-up "institution" which has invaded our societies, I would do so in the most vicious, public fashion. I would make jihadists look like care bears in comparison. The thumbs up/down in game mean nothing. Let me say it again NOTHING. People lose, thumbs down, they dont like the creation, thumbs down, someone was hotmic'ed and making shitloads of noise, thumbs down, it was raining, thumbsdown Equally meaningless is thumbs up, people are raised these days to be such thin-skinned wussies that they feel compelled to thumbs up no matter what out of fear of the 21st century's ultimate sin....being "uncool" which roughly translates in practice to kissing everyone's asses all the time, im in your crew so i have to TU whatever you make, someone asks for TU in the description, TU, etc etc etc It is the most rudimentary form of feedback possible, yet people treat it as if their lives depend on it. It would be like taking some worm that lives only underground and possesses a primitive eye that can only discern light from dark and then asking the worm to critique some art. White paint? He sees it. Black paint? he doesn't.....and everyone rushes out to buy as much white paint as possible and every painting for a generation is made with white paint. See the absurdity? If people want feedback, if they want constructive criticism...the forum is here for that. there are creator-specific crews for that they can join and participate in on the side if they are serious about wanting to make cool creations and get real critiques (trust me though, some of those crews have even worse problems with accomplishing their specific "mission/purpose" than XDBX has trying to do the far wider variety of things we set out to do, we are leagues ahead of where the vast majority of crews are out there in terms of coming together and making stuff happen) 2 Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Ok, I think I see where we got off track. First off, Im sorry if it looks like Im choosing sides. Im on my side. My side is that I would like to start trying other jobs in our PLs. I was not trying to single any one person out for doing anything out of spite. I really enjoy the jobs that we already run regularly. They are great creations. I would like to start seeing some other creations, made by crew members, make it into the PLs. I feel that a lot of the Jobs that are done, are in PL's because of who made them. Everyone likes to join something that is expected to be great. Im the same way. Thats normal behavior. I don't want to start hosting Jobs for randoms to play, just because the creator won't, or can't. What we are starting is the XDBX Aprroved section for creations. Trying to encourage members to get their jobs public. We won't run them public for the members. But maybe we can help critique them. If we do this, and nothing changes with the Job, then so be it. Nothing changes and we move on. The system is designed similar to GTAF Approved critiques. After a job is judged, it can be modified, and resubmitted for Approval. After it has been Approved, hopefully they will chance running publicly for their own promotions. Maybe we will find some real jewels in them and be able to use them. Im only trying to promote more crew involvment. Im sorry if I came across in a different manner. Im really a little upset that this post went down the path that it did. It did seem to drive a wedge between some members. I hope that this damage is repairable. I would hate to have something like this be a terminal plague for the crew. If I said anything in this, or previous posts that offended anybody, Im sorry. That was never my intent. I have poured a lot of time and effort into this crew. Hopefully everyone views me as a fair, and objective person. This is what I strive for. So again, Im sorry, and I hope this clears any misunderstanding of what I have said previously. lol, nice work commish! I dont think this is all that bad, it is good to disagree. It shows we care. In the military you are taught that if no one is bitching about conditions, pay, duties, etc etc....then you have a disaster impending. Edited June 24, 2014 by handcuff_charlie 1 Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge 7,248 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 lol, nice work commish! I dont think this is all that bad, it is good to disagree. It shows we care. In the military you are taught that if no one is bitching about conditions, pay, duties, etc etc....then you have serious problems. Yea, this one kinda blew up in my face. Picture is worth a thousand words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) First off Charlie you character wears combat boots. Second point I dont host my own stuff because i do not feel comfortable to play with randoms and you only have such a shelf life within the crew. I understand the "failures" of my stuff and was trying to help other people with theirs. I know everyone I mentioned make great things just trying to get new blood as well. I am the asshole that started a shit storm because of it though. Sorry I went down this way though. LOL that's the spirit! I didn't realize you considered your creations failures, I'll be honest I have played so much stuff between this crew and the creator crew that I dont recall if I played yours, but TBH being a true "failure" is as equally difficult as being a universal hit. I LOATHE jumps jumps jumps and prison thugs, but hey, a bazillion plays between them...so it is all relative. Hell, some of dodge and rev's tracks make me want to punch baby jesus, but they are more popular than any of mine. That's just how it is when people have their own personal tastes for whatever. Embrace it, I do. I dont see this as you being an "asshole" at all, but I think this thread came across in a real unclear manner as to what it was being critical of (again being critical is not inherently bad), it appears now that this was simply about trying to get unplayed stuff from people who never host or otherwise get their stuff played into VETTING PLAYLISTS...but it came across as being critical of how people hosting events are choosing material for events and that some of us are promoting ourselves at the expense of others (which was exactly what bullit was impying if he realized/admitted it or not)...it seemed like there were some other grievances being brought up that had little relevance to soliciting reps/muscle to submit content for vetting playlists and drew the topic away from the intended and into unintended areas. A reaction surely should have been expected in that case. it's good to get stuff off our chests now and again and we can really see where things lie and move forward. You don't owe anyone an apology because you haven't wronged anyone IMHO. I'm not mad at anyone, least of all you, I'm just clear about my feelings and opinions and I will defend myself or what I see as bad or a bad idea, and I do so directly. Doesn't mean I run a perpetual enemies list. I'm too old school for that. Still a happy monkey here. Edited June 24, 2014 by handcuff_charlie 1 Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb76 3,951 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Crew hug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge 7,248 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'd like a hug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handcuff_charlie 801 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hugs are for cunts This is the best I can do. 1 Quote "handcuff, should I join XDBX?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb76 3,951 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hugs are for cunts that's why I asked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssracingn2 935 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hugs are for cunts This is the best I can do. Right back at you Charlie and everyone else. Quote http://www.gta-stats.com/player/image/medium_1.units_0.platI_1.plat_2/custom.stats_races_ratio.stats_dm_ratio.crime_kills_players_headshots.crime_kdr_players.other_vehicles_speed/ssracingn2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge 7,248 Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Aw, I still want a hug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssracingn2 935 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 No hug for you. Lol Quote http://www.gta-stats.com/player/image/medium_1.units_0.platI_1.plat_2/custom.stats_races_ratio.stats_dm_ratio.crime_kills_players_headshots.crime_kdr_players.other_vehicles_speed/ssracingn2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumdig 957 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Just wanted to provide an update on my end of all this. From the initial 10 job playlist I have messaged all the individual creators and provided my own critique of their tracks. Every critique was welcomed and I received much thanks for doing so. So far three tracks have been submitted back to me as being updated...these will be in future event playlists of mine. I'll call this a success and continue my efforts down this path. Thanks SS, for bringing out the necessity 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronny 1,061 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) I was just wandering around the forum for some creator pointers and tumbled over this.I must be honest and say that at first I got a bit scared, but when reading trough all the posts I only see a bunch of people that really cares and wants to make the game and the creations better.I definitely not see myself as an creator, and will probably never do, the spare time I have, is reserved for gaming, but there may be occasionally some weird TDM's popping up with my name on just for fun.And if I could get the help and guidance to make them playable, and that maybe some other guys as well would enjoy them, I would be most thankful. And if it's one thing i've learned in my years as a coach is that the team and the individual player won't develop if there aren't no guidance, and in guidance criticism is an important tool, it have to be constructive to make it work though.There's no point in telling somebody that they're bad if you can't explain the reason.And as some of you said, there's some ugly babies out there, but remember there still your babies and it may just take a change of shirt to make them nice. So to make a "long" story short, I would just say I'm glad to see that we have people in our Crew that cares, and hopefully I would get some help from you've when i need it Edited July 12, 2014 by RO9M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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