DavidCore89 7,402 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 (edited) I understand and agree with you fully DC as i used to play in a band and know that the artists is the last person getting paid on the spectrum and half the time they dont even get paid. Problem is where the fuck do you buy a cd from these days? I walked into best buy , wal mart and future shop for them all to have only small shelf with maybe 200 cds of literally every genre possible so you can imagine what i was looking for wasnt there. I dont like that now if i wanna buy and album im buying a recording I dont even get a hard copy anymore i just pay for some mp3s i can carry around on an itunes account I dont want? its frustrating . I agree man, physical copies are dying out fast, I used to work with a guy who pressed vinyl for a living, each one would cost him £10 before it's even on the truck to a store, it's just not practical anymore. I'm now involved in a digital online record label so all of our sales are digital but we do produce 100 hard copies of our biggest releases and send them around EU for free. To give an idea of how much smaller scale music producers / record label owners make and lose - we make a track, takes often months, hundreds of hours using hardware, software and samples which cost thousands of pounds. When you're finished with the track it can then be sold for £1.99 for the first 2 weeks only, then £1.49 and then £0.79. The website which is the most popular website for all DJ's will then take 37% as soon as a track is sold and before anything reaches the label or the producer. Finally as per the contract, the contributing artists will receive 50% of the remaining sum which means music producers and record label owners get f*ck all even before the track and property is stolen via file sharing whether it be, torrent, Zippy, Mediafire or any other means of obtaining music without paying for it. If they are your favorite artists then buy their damn music and stop stealing it. Edited May 29, 2014 by DavidCore89 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullittblitz 148 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I mainly listen to podcasts and they are free and ad supported. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbouncer 1,431 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Is watching on youtube considered stealing too? Quote Rev's Races Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furdog 525 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I think I've downloaded a total of 3 songs that where not legal and that was back when Napster first started and I was using dial-up to connect. Now I use streaming sites like Nokia music on my phone and Last.fm or Pandora on my PC. Probably not getting the artists much from using these services but they are currently legal and I don't listen to a lot of music when not using a radio. I do use iTunes when my daughter wants to buy songs, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidCore89 7,402 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Is watching on youtube considered stealing too? Of course not, you're just viewing it, to obtain the file without paying is stealing. I didn't wanna offend anyone who does the things I despise, I'm just giving my opinion as I will with anything. Just so happens to be that this is my line of work, my passion and a tricky subject for me so I'll probably let this comment be my last, I've made my point to all in this thread, regardless of where you get music from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furdog 525 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Is watching on youtube considered stealing too? Not stealing if you use official channels or videos. If its from a third-party than the artist might not be compensated for the use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullittblitz 148 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 It can be touchy...but we are all adults and in the end will do what we want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revbouncer 1,431 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 It's just that ive been abused on youtube for liking watching free vids and not having to buy them. Ive bought the same Metallica records that many times in my life I don't mind watching for free. Others don't like it, just wanted an insiders view, cheers DC Quote Rev's Races Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullittblitz 148 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Someone on YT insulted you for watching a video??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locust_cnd 166 Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Of course not, you're just viewing it, to obtain the file without paying is stealing. I didn't wanna offend anyone who does the things I despise, I'm just giving my opinion as I will with anything. Just so happens to be that this is my line of work, my passion and a tricky subject for me so I'll probably let this comment be my last, I've made my point to all in this thread, regardless of where you get music from. its a real tough business DC its truly a work of passion, the band I was in only played one show but I've helped manage a few bands have also done the light shows for one so I know the game... Sounds like your up in the ranks with producers and lables its even worse when your a newbie playing at clubs and bars on the weekends... Promoters here claim youll get "free drinks,gas paid, hotel if needed, and a portion of the liquor sales/ticket sales" if you dont chase the promoter down at the end of the show to get what your owed he'll run away like he stole your bike and usually you end up just getting some story about this and that and you just get paid from the tickets or just from the liquor or whatever the case. The problem is its one of those industrys under control by "the man" I wont get into a discussion about it but you have to sell your fucking soul and thats only if you know the people to get you into the industry. Its really hard for the small guy to come up even with the greatest music you just get smothered by the big guys Quote Future is nothing but a series of probability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidCore89 7,402 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 its a real tough business DC its truly a work of passion, the band I was in only played one show but I've helped manage a few bands have also done the light shows for one so I know the game... Sounds like your up in the ranks with producers and lables its even worse when your a newbie playing at clubs and bars on the weekends... Promoters here claim youll get "free drinks,gas paid, hotel if needed, and a portion of the liquor sales/ticket sales" if you dont chase the promoter down at the end of the show to get what your owed he'll run away like he stole your bike and usually you end up just getting some story about this and that and you just get paid from the tickets or just from the liquor or whatever the case. The problem is its one of those industrys under control by "the man" I wont get into a discussion about it but you have to sell your fucking soul and thats only if you know the people to get you into the industry. Its really hard for the small guy to come up even with the greatest music you just get smothered by the big guys Lol yeah I know those guys all too well, there are a lot of promoters like that running around over here, one bad comment from the headline act via FB or Twitter and it's game over and the walls will be closing in. I always had the money ready before the events kicked off so we were all good, most bigger UK artists will not take a booking at any event without payment up front or without having previous with the promoters. It's a cut throat business where people always try to get one over on you before you've got going, brown nosing the big boys may help at the start but as soon as word gets out It'll all be over before it's begun, I'll never do that either book me or don't. I always play for free, have never charged a penny not even for travelling and probably never will unless I get a main stage booking one day, I've been to some venues where even a free drink is out of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustHatched 12,103 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I agree man, physical copies are dying out fast, I used to work with a guy who pressed vinyl for a living, each one would cost him £10 before it's even on the truck to a store, it's just not practical anymore. I'm now involved in a digital online record label so all of our sales are digital but we do produce 100 hard copies of our biggest releases and send them around EU for free. To give an idea of how much smaller scale music producers / record label owners make and lose - we make a track, takes often months, hundreds of hours using hardware, software and samples which cost thousands of pounds. When you're finished with the track it can then be sold for £1.99 for the first 2 weeks only, then £1.49 and then £0.79. The website which is the most popular website for all DJ's will then take 37% as soon as a track is sold and before anything reaches the label or the producer. Finally as per the contract, the contributing artists will receive 50% of the remaining sum which means music producers and record label owners get f*ck all even before the track and property is stolen via file sharing whether it be, torrent, Zippy, Mediafire or any other means of obtaining music without paying for it. If they are your favorite artists then buy their damn music and stop stealing it. i'm in the wrong website business 1 Quote The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist3321 169 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I used to be in DC's camp, still am to a degree, but not like I used to be. Most of the issue is the music industry has dramatically changed ever since Napster was a game changer and now we have things like Spotify, but I've seen those checks from bandmates and they are also pennies on the dollar. The money is just not there like it used to be, unless you adapt like DC has with a digital company. Part of my change is similar to Locusts thoughts. I too was in the music industry and really wanted to make a career of it.....everything from indie bands to even a sell out commercial assembled project.....think how they put together boy bands that are totally commercial, made simply to make money, but in the rock scene. Aside from the egos and the sex, drugs, rock and roll mentality one of the reasons I left was how the finances worked out. I'm not sure how it works in Europe but out here I kept running into two main situations.......1) Some company wants ownership of everything I created and wants to pay me pennies on the dollar or 2) Some company wants to front us a lot of money, own the rights, but is essentially a huge debt that can't be guaranteed to pay back as they can cut you any time. They were all losing propositions. DC is right that there are a ton of hands in the pot and people making money off us artists, but pennies on the dollar for something I created just seems egregious to me. If it was paying a fee for promotion/marketing much like someone pays a producer per track, that would be cool. But the labels out here wanting too much and owning the right is weak.....but with the sex, drugs, and rock and roll mentality, I found out so many of these dudes just want to play drums and have no business sense and let the labels take advantage of them. My other issue that shaped my thoughts on piracy is in the 90's, and some of you may remember this, there was a huge class action lawsuit against some major labels because they were colluding on the price of albums and were found guilty. Everyone filled out a dumb form and they sent you a $12 check...just bullshit. I feel for the artists, but knowing they don't make shit I started to not mind piracy because it stuck it to the corporate greed. I don't think it's right and make sure to go out of my way to buy albums of artists I like and even attend a ton of concerts because most of their money comes from merch sales, but i don't feel strongly on the issue like I used to. I don't download anyway unless it's a quick song from my phone to make a ringtone.....I'm turning into that old guy that says all the new stuff sucks like our elders did and stay with older stuff that I liked. Heck, even artists I do still follow come out with new albums and I'm not even checkign them out. With Spotify, Pandora, etc. I didn't even think piracy was still as big a deal. Pay a couple bucks a month for extremely large databases...granted, like above the artists still aren't making shit. Just my two cents having been in the industry as a musician. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidCore89 7,402 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Yeah I've heard some stories of the sex, drugs and rock and roll dudes getting ripped clean off while the label makes millions of dollars, in fact I saw a TV show about it the other week, was an American guitarist I think. I think the greediness is the same in EU. Truth is there will never be any real money in music unless you are in a commercial boy band with that sideways growing hair. By the time all these subscription based websites have churned out songs of which they do not own any royalties to over 200,000 people what is left? it's all in their pockets and the artists are left scratching their heads wondering WTF just happened. It's just mega bucks people making even more mega bucks from someone else's talent which is wrong. To imagine how many times a worldwide artists song has been stolen is mind boggling. I once did an experiment - when I make a track I will give it free to some of my DJ pals to play it around (private link), So as always I tagged the track meaning it couldn't be uploaded to illegal file sharing sites without receiving a copyright warning, by the following day I had 16 reports from the company used so It proves everyone wants something for nothing, never found out who it was but you live and learn. I've also uploaded some tracks without any tags (clear sign of a rip) to the illegal file sharing websites (my own tracks I'm allowed) I'll add a certain snare pattern which is different to the original which is for sale elsewhere, I'll add my name and the track details in lower case letters (as that is another clear sign of a rip) then I'll post on FB asking for someone to send me the track because I can't find it in my library - within 10 minutes I'll receive the track from many people and one time it was the booby-trapped track from said website, he didn't know what to say. Edited May 30, 2014 by DavidCore89 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist3321 169 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yeah, no doubt about the everyone wanting something for free. I mainly see it with tech buddies where friends, family, or whoever wants them to fix their computer for free like the tech didn't pay money or go to school for x amount of time to learn to do what they do. Funny you mention the worldwide thing. I have a buddy that made music in college and for whatever reason it became a smashing success in Sweden, Norway, Finland area.....he showed me articles and record charts from ou there. He didn't get compensated for anything. The aspect of people knowing these sites is funny too. I was sitting here last night and saw we could upload a song to our profile here. I have a visitor from out of state and kind of asked for a place to quickly download a song to just put up and they rattled off a few sites and methods. Just a reminder that modern civilization has changed with the thought process and way music and that medium is handled. The sex drugs guys were a trip to me. Coming from a business background, even younger, it was so hard to get 4 or 5 people on the same page or to get them to think or treat it like a business. They just wanted to put a pic of themselves up on their Myspace holding a guitar and get laid. The egos involved and stupidity make them an easy target. I almost think they deserve it much like if I'm playing poker and some guy is playing foolish...one would be more of a fool than the fool to point out their flaws and mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidCore89 7,402 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yeah, no doubt about the everyone wanting something for free. I mainly see it with tech buddies where friends, family, or whoever wants them to fix their computer for free like the tech didn't pay money or go to school for x amount of time to learn to do what they do. Funny you mention the worldwide thing. I have a buddy that made music in college and for whatever reason it became a smashing success in Sweden, Norway, Finland area.....he showed me articles and record charts from ou there. He didn't get compensated for anything. The aspect of people knowing these sites is funny too. I was sitting here last night and saw we could upload a song to our profile here. I have a visitor from out of state and kind of asked for a place to quickly download a song to just put up and they rattled off a few sites and methods. Just a reminder that modern civilization has changed with the thought process and way music and that medium is handled. The sex drugs guys were a trip to me. Coming from a business background, even younger, it was so hard to get 4 or 5 people on the same page or to get them to think or treat it like a business. They just wanted to put a pic of themselves up on their Myspace holding a guitar and get laid. The egos involved and stupidity make them an easy target. I almost think they deserve it much like if I'm playing poker and some guy is playing foolish...one would be more of a fool than the fool to point out their flaws and mistakes. Actually about the computers as you mentioned it - I went through a phase of repairing, virus removal and a few other basic things, but every job I did for family, friends or anyone who knows me didn't end up paying me. I didn't pay to learn anything as it's all knowledge I've become familiar with but it took my time, it's a similar scenario you were speaking of. I soon gave that up That's really bad for your friend and I bet he wasn't even it the business for the money, still it must be satisfying to be that popular in other countries. I always find it pretty cool to get a quick message from an oversees musician. I used to use a website to upload my own sounds (been much less active over the past 2 years) well the website would allow artists to make their work available for free and / or to be played, it would show countries which are playing or downloading your music, nearly half of my total hits were from the US which was awesome, made a lot of friends from many countries. I think those dodgy websites will always be the go-to place for music and I can see why - it's free. Consumers are cost wary and if something is available for free they will get the free version. If I was just another consumer I would probably be doing the same because it's not every day people even care about who is losing out, they just want their favorite or the latest album. Lol the Myspace bit made me laugh because it's the exact same thing I'll see if I logged onto FB right now, probably top of the page. I also like the little tip at the end there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist3321 169 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 My buddy laughs about it and I assume why he showed me....his minor at univeristy was music and it was more or less them messing around. Dude does start ups around San Francisco in the computer world and makes bank.......its why I tell his example, because I know he doesn't care these days haha. The whole model changed with Napster. It just became accessible easily. The ones that have succeeded were the ones that adapted. Me personally, when I was playing and money was great I was buying more CD's than I could play, but I have been burned so many times from just buying. I see the value in what Myspace did with the players and it's since expanded with Cloud Player, etc. Getting a sneak peek before buying is important, especially with new music. But hopefully people could buy from the artist direct or something that doesn't go to corporate greed. I have to laugh at Myspace too. I was playing as that was booming and it was beyond easy. I didn't even contact anyone and would just see the mesages in the inbox. I at least understand the sex part of the equation although I wanted more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyork-nightmare 698 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I don't download. I buy cd's still. only for personal reasons. Quote "You have enemies? good, that means you stood up for something in your life" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustHatched 12,103 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 amazon.com for me Quote The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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