Gm going all electric

[JustHatched 12,103]

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/gm-going-all-electric-will-ditch-gas-diesel-powered-cars-n806806

 

Thoughts?

[Fido_le_muet 5,197]

No way. Not until 2035/2040.

[Jjss924 576]

It will be a change in the job market for a lot of people if they do.

[Crawford1872 2,581]

To be fair, the technology route worked wonders for apple and all that, so if the right people are in charge and/or get really unlucky it could actually be sensible level if it’s just them trying to give the brand a polish a bit

[DavidCore89 7,402]

Every manufacturer will go electric at some point, loads of major manufacturers have been making electric cars for years, so I'd say GM are very late to the party.

[Fido_le_muet 5,197]

43 minutes ago, DavidCore89 said:

Every manufacturer will go electric at some point, loads of major manufacturers have been making electric cars for years, so I'd say GM are very late to the party.

The article says they want to go electric ONLY. That's unrealistic in the near future IMO. 

[JustHatched 12,103]

I could see it happening, but I can't wrap my head around a 100% electric Corvette

[Smurf 947]

China announced that they are going fully electric last month, that's one third of the market so they are staying in the competition is all.

[DavidCore89 7,402]

1 hour ago, Fido_le_muet said:

The article says they want to go electric ONLY. That's unrealistic in the near future IMO. 

I get that, however Japanese manufacturers are at least a decade ahead.

GM will still be selling V8's when Toyota, Nissan and Honda become fully electric.

[Dodge 7,248]

Tesla has really pushed the time table forward on the electric car movement. With the release of the 3, it will make electric cars a reality for virtually everyone, assuming they can supply enough of them. Tesla's infastructure has promised a Lightning charging system every 200 miles along every interstate in North America by 2020. That's a 30 minute charger that can provide an 80% charge to any electric or eDrive vehicle on the road. 

Its a revolution people. Don't get caught on the wrong side of history. 

[Squirrel 5,180]

Where do the environmentalists stand on this? The theory is that electric cars are green is made purely on the basis of emissions. 

I agree that electric cars pump out far fewer harmful gases than a traditional petrol or diesel car but how is that electricity produced?

Currently China is the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases from their power stations, followed not far behind by the US. If these countries both also change to 100% electric cars then that output and subsequent increase in pollution may be more damaging than the emmissions from cars.

Battery production is also another factor, have they looked into all the damaging effects of what it takes to make a battery and what happens with them at the end of their life. They’re also not easy to recycle, would you want a lot of lithium buried near your town? 

I fully agree something needs to be done to combat pollution but we don’t have the technology established yet. Hydrogen power seems to be one possibility, for power stations nuclear is one of the cleaner options but that’s not without it’s risks and it’s not a popular option.

I know hydro, wind and solar are options for power but can they produce enough kilowatts to be able to sustain a worldwide electric car fleet?

A bigger factor would be a change in how we use our cars. The promotion of car free cities would certainly help. Look at Holland, cycling is huge there and it’s no coincidence that it’s also one of the greenest countries. 

This of course is not a viable option in countries like the US, China and Russia due to the vast distances that people can travel between towns but certainly within cities there’s no need to have a large number of cars for when people aren’t travelling far. If you can walk or cycle somewhere then you should. Better for you and better for the environment. 

 

 

[Fido_le_muet 5,197]

2 hours ago, Squirrel said:

lots of smart things

Fully agree with all your points mate. I think exactly the same. 

Definitely need to develop green public transports and use bikes/rollers/skate or whatever more. Especially in cities. 

Personally I use the tramway and this for my commute : 

BTW, how do you call this in english ? Google tells me it's a scooter but isn't there another word for it ? 

[Squirrel 5,180]

3 minutes ago, Fido_le_muet said:

BTW, how do you call this in english ? Google tells me it's a scooter but isn't there another word for it ? 

We call it a scooter. You do see a few people using them along with skateboards for transport although I wouldn't trust them on average UK paving. 

[Fido_le_muet 5,197]

It is tricky to use on paving. I almost fall on a regular basis  

[The_Lady_A 1,280]

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Where do the environmentalists stand on this? The theory is that electric cars are green is made purely on the basis of emissions. 

I agree that electric cars pump out far Battery production is also another factor, have they looked into all the damaging effects of what it takes to make a battery and what happens with them at the end of their life. They’re also not easy to recycle, would you want a lot of lithium buried near your town? 

I fully agree something needs to be done to combat pollution but we don’t have the technology established yet. Hydrogen power seems to be one possibility, for power stations nuclear is one of the cleaner options but that’s not without it’s risks and it’s not a popular option.

I know hydro, wind and solar are options for power but can they produce enough kilowatts to be able to sustain a worldwide electric car fleet?

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that as electric infrastructure and products increase, the petroleum and fossil fuel infrastructure should be decreasing. It's through that trade off that electrical technology can ultimately be greener. Yes extracting raw materials is still going to be terribly expensive in terms of energy cost and to the enviroment, but it's already terrible and the vehicles themselves emit a bunch of awful crap out of their exhaust. They also emit these lung-killers exactly where people live, so while there may be no net decrease in emissions, there would be a huge decrease in most urban enviroments as dirty generators do tend to be built and operated a bit out of the way. I'm guessing it's also easier and cheaper to develop a few new improved poison scrubbers for fossil fuel power stations than to do the same for a few billion petroleum vehicles.

Renewable generators have come a long way already and are a lot cheaper than most people realise compared to even five years ago. Nuclear is only getting more expensive too. I'm not inherently against nuclear power and radiation doesn't scare me any more than say benzine, in fact the Hinkley Point C plant if built would be 15-20km away as the isotope flies, and I don't mind. Build it in my back yard if it's needed. But right now the case for nuclear is looking pretty weak to be honest. I'm not at all convinced they couldn't get the same power from a mixed renewables site there.

[zztop911 1,609]

4 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Where do the environmentalists stand on this? The theory is that electric cars are green is made purely on the basis of emissions. 

I agree that electric cars pump out far fewer harmful gases than a traditional petrol or diesel car but how is that electricity produced?

Currently China is the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases from their power stations, followed not far behind by the US. If these countries both also change to 100% electric cars then that output and subsequent increase in pollution may be more damaging than the emmissions from cars.

Battery production is also another factor, have they looked into all the damaging effects of what it takes to make a battery and what happens with them at the end of their life. They’re also not easy to recycle, would you want a lot of lithium buried near your town? 

I fully agree something needs to be done to combat pollution but we don’t have the technology established yet. Hydrogen power seems to be one possibility, for power stations nuclear is one of the cleaner options but that’s not without it’s risks and it’s not a popular option.

I know hydro, wind and solar are options for power but can they produce enough kilowatts to be able to sustain a worldwide electric car fleet?

A bigger factor would be a change in how we use our cars. The promotion of car free cities would certainly help. Look at Holland, cycling is huge there and it’s no coincidence that it’s also one of the greenest countries. 

This of course is not a viable option in countries like the US, China and Russia due to the vast distances that people can travel between towns but certainly within cities there’s no need to have a large number of cars for when people aren’t travelling far. If you can walk or cycle somewhere then you should. Better for you and better for the environment. 

 

 

Now why are you destroying the Greenies ultimate Utopia? ?

 

Until we master Fusion, this dream world of electric cars is just a farce and even then we still have to deal with the pollution that is caused by the production of the vehicle, most notably the battery and what to do with the battery once it is no longer viable.

[Beez 5,091]

Bring back steam power!

[Squirrel 5,180]

1 minute ago, Beez said:

Bring back steam power!

What do you think most power stations are? They are just giant boilers creating steam to spin turbines. Far more efficient than the old days of steam. 

We need a cheap renewable fuel which doesn’t give off poisonous emmisions when burned. If you can crack that then you’ll be a very rich man. 

[Crawford1872 2,581]

Way I see it most of the planet is oceans, marine energy has massive potential as a power source, spend half the money we spend on new toys to kill people on that instead and we’d be there in no time. 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Crawford1872

[Beez 5,091]

If I have the right video here, this guy has a plan to use a cable that conducts heat from the earths core to heat water to run existing steam turbine power plants. Technology exists from oil drilling to place the cable. 0 emissions. 

 

[Squirrel 5,180]

14 minutes ago, Beez said:

If I have the right video here, this guy has a plan to use a cable that conducts heat from the earths core to heat water to run existing steam turbine power plants. Technology exists from oil drilling to place the cable. 0 emissions. 

 

That sounds like something out of a comic book movie with the alien villain planning to steal the heat from the earths core. 

Sounds like an interesting concept but if Fracking can cause tremors what damage would this do especially in areas with weak faultlines. Goodbye California!

[The_Lady_A 1,280]

21 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

That sounds like something out of a comic book movie with the alien villain planning to steal the heat from the earths core. 

Sounds like an interesting concept but if Fracking can cause tremors what damage would this do especially in areas with weak faultlines. Goodbye California!

It's not like fracking according to the video. The classic geothermal power concept is 'pump water down and use the heat as a boiler to run a steam generator'. The classic issue with that is four miles of steam piping at any sort of useful pressure in a place that can't be easily maintained is a bomb waiting to detonate. 

The twist in the video is using a graphine cable to bring the heat up to the surface to run a much more traditional steam plant. Which 'only' requires the sort of deep boreing that the petrochemical industry already does. It's a pretty interesting idea actually.

[Clydicality 18]

7 hours ago, Squirrel said:

Where do the environmentalists stand on this? The theory is that electric cars are green is made purely on the basis of emissions. 

I agree that electric cars pump out far fewer harmful gases than a traditional petrol or diesel car but how is that electricity produced?

Currently China is the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases from their power stations, followed not far behind by the US. If these countries both also change to 100% electric cars then that output and subsequent increase in pollution may be more damaging than the emmissions from cars.

Battery production is also another factor, have they looked into all the damaging effects of what it takes to make a battery and what happens with them at the end of their life. They’re also not easy to recycle, would you want a lot of lithium buried near your town? 

I fully agree something needs to be done to combat pollution but we don’t have the technology established yet. Hydrogen power seems to be one possibility, for power stations nuclear is one of the cleaner options but that’s not without it’s risks and it’s not a popular option.

I know hydro, wind and solar are options for power but can they produce enough kilowatts to be able to sustain a worldwide electric car fleet?

A bigger factor would be a change in how we use our cars. The promotion of car free cities would certainly help. Look at Holland, cycling is huge there and it’s no coincidence that it’s also one of the greenest countries. 

This of course is not a viable option in countries like the US, China and Russia due to the vast distances that people can travel between towns but certainly within cities there’s no need to have a large number of cars for when people aren’t travelling far. If you can walk or cycle somewhere then you should. Better for you and better for the environment. 

 

 

You are right squirrel that the main emissions from electric vehicles are from the electricity that is produced to charge them. Electric vehicles charged with electricity produced from coal emits a lot more CO2 than the equivalent petrol vehicle, while if it was charged with electricity like France's electricity grid (lots of nuclear power) it is by far a lot more environmentally friendly.

As there are no emissions from the electric vehicle itself, it means city centres will not suffer so badly from issues of smog.

As for battery manufacture and production, it's the mining of the other metals such as nickel and cobalt that really damage the environment. The production of an electric vehicle is only slightly worse than the equivalent petrol vehicle (mainly because of the battery) and it soon makes up for it with reduced emissions during usage (provided its not coal produced electricity). 

Currently very little lithium is recycled from lithium ion batteries (there's actually not alot of lithium in a lithium ion battery) it is the more valuable metals such as cobalt and nickel that are recovered.  (Although lithium is not currently recovered in large amounts, it is not buried in the ground as lithium, it will be a safe non-toxic compound, which may be used in some other industry) . However, with the value and demand of lithium rising and battery recyclers are now producing ways to recover the lithium for reuse. 

The future of cars is the lithium-ion battery, at least for the next couple of decades. The infrastructure just needs to be built and greener electricity production worldwide.  

Edited October 4, 2017 by Clydicality
Grammer

[Beez 5,091]

 

[Crawford1872 2,581]

1 minute ago, Beez said:

 

Used to fancy the fuck out of her when I was about 10 y/o haha